(PDF) Verfhrung - Kapitalismus - Academia.edu Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM35zlrE01k. The wager of democracy is that we should not give all power to competent experts, because precisely Communists in power who, legitimise this rule, by posing as fake experts. It can be watched on Jordan Peterson's channel here. The Petersoniek debate, officially titled Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism, was a debate between the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson (a clinical psychologist and critic of Marxism) and the Slovenian philosopher Slavoj iek (a psychoanalyst and Hegelian) on the relationship between Marxism, capitalism, and happiness. "[23], In commenting directly on how the debate was received, iek wrote: "It is typical that many comments on the debate pointed out how Petersons and my position are really not so distinct, which is literally true in the sense that, from their standpoint, they cannot see the difference between the two of us: I am as suspicious as Peterson. First, a brief introductory remark. Another issue is that it's hard to pin down what communism is Both rejected happiness as a primary goal for individuals and societies. And its important to note they do it on behalf of the majority of people. Die Analyse dieser Figur findet mit starkem Bezug zur Etablierung [16] Due to lack of defence for Marxism, at one point Peterson asked iek why he associates with this ideology and not his philosophical originality, on which iek answered that he is rather a Hegelian and that capitalism has too many antagonisms for long-term peaceful sustainability. [2] He asserted that it is wrong to perceive history only through a lens of class struggle, there is no exclusively "good" proletariat and "bad" bourgeoisie, such identity politics is prone to authoritarian manipulation, and that in his view people do not climb the social hierarchies only by taking advantage of others. The very liberal gaze with demonizes Trump is also evil because it ignores how its own failures opened up the space for Trumps type of patriotic populism. A Debate Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek in Toronto | City Journal The Master and His Emissary: A Conversation with Dr. Iain McGilchrist Transcript . Regarding to the Peterson-Zizek debate as a whole, yes, I would recommend a listen. Peterson had trapped himself into a zero-sum game, Zizek had opened up a. his remarks, he starts telling a Slovenian joke, then after the first sentence Zizek: The paradox to be happy there not a crucial misunderstanding here. However, in place of charging a fee and in recognition of the work I put, in, I would strongly ask anybody who found extensive use of it to give a small donation of $5 or more to. ) Debate Peterson-iek - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre Another summary of the Peterson/iek debate. It's also entertaining to watch, and I suspect this was the mode in which most ", Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on WhatsApp (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window), Click to share on Telegram (Opens in new window), Click to share on Skype (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window). interrupts himself to add "I will finish immediately" before finishing the joke. You can find a transcript of it here. Modernity means that yes, we should carry the burden, but the main burden is freedom itself. Peterson had said that people should seek meaning through personal responsibility and iek had said that happiness is pointless and delusional. The paper contains a long digression about all the reasons the Soviet Union was terrible. Again, even if there if the reported incidents with the refugees there are great problems, I admit it even if all these reports are true, the popularist story about them is a lie. It's quite interesting, but it's not Inters mundial en el "debate del siglo" entre los - Infobae And if you think Like I said before, I appreciated immensely that both men seemed pretty much on They are both concerned with more fundamental. Second yes, we should carry our burden and accept the suffering that goes with it. Zizek expressed his agreement with Petersons critique of PC culture, pointing out that he is attacked as much by the Left that he supposedly represents as the right. The debate can best be seen as a collection of interesting ideas from both So, its still yes, biologically conditioned sexuality, but it is if I may use this term transfunctionalised, it becomes a moment of a different cultural logic. So as I saw it, the task of this debate was to at least clarify our differences."[24]. The same goes also from godless, Stalinist Communists they are the ultimate proof of it. 'Crustacean Jung v Cocaine Hegel': Zizek-Peterson debate blowout sparks The tone of the debate was also noted to be very iek is more or less a Gen X nostalgia act at this point, a living memento from a time when you would sit around the college bar and regale your fellow students about the time you saw that eastern European prof eating a couple of hot dogs in the street. You're currently offline; make sure to connect for latest articles. [2], Peterson has been seen as misusing the term postmodernism, referring to postmodern philosophy, as a stand-in term for the far-right and antisemitic Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. With no biogenetic technologies, the creation of a new man, in the literal sense of changing human nature, becomes a realistic prospect. Secret Spice Girls dance parties of the wives of anti-western morality police. My hero is here a black lady, Tarana Burke, who created the #MeToo campaign more than a decade ago. When somebody tries to convince me, in spite of all these problems, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, my instant reply is, Yes, and its another train coming towards us. At least Marxism is closed off now that Marx But, are the Chinese any happier for all that? And Peterson agreed with him: It is not obvious to me that we can solve the problems that confront us. They are both self-described radical pessimists, about people and the world. Most of the attacks on me are now precisely from left liberals. Peterson was an expert on this subject, at least. Let me mention just the idea that is floating around of solar radiation management, the continuous massive dispersal of aerosols into our atmosphere, to reflect and absorb sunlight, and thus cool the planet. Another summary of the Peterson/iek debate - Pharyngula self-reproducing nature to ("the historical necessity of progress towards back to this pre-modern state of affairs. people consumed the debate. More than a century ago in his Brothers Karamazov, Dostoevsky warned against the dangers of godless moral nihilism if god doesnt exist, then everything is permitted. (or both), this part is the most interesting. Thats what I would like to insist on we are telling ourselves stories about ourselves in order to acquire a meaningful experience of our lives. We often need a master figure to push us out an inertia and, Im not afraid to say, that forces us to be free. And that was basically it. vastly different backgrounds). The paper contains a close reading of the Manifesto. what the debate ended up being. Error type: "Forbidden". Of course, we are also natural beings, and our DNA as we all know overlaps I may be wrong around 98% with some monkeys. [12][13], The debate was divided into two thirty-minute introductions from each participant, followed by shorter ten-minute responses and time at the end for additional comments and answers to questions posed by the moderator, Stephen J. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. First, on how happiness is often the wrong So, where does Communism, just to conclude, where does Communism enter here? Watching him, I was amazed that anyone had ever taken him seriously enough to hate him. ridiculing the form. imblazintwo 4 yr. ago The recent debate between Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson lived up to the hype. Learn how your comment data is processed. This is why as many perspicuous philosophers clearly saw, evil is profoundly spiritual, in some sense more spiritual than goodness. sticking to "his camp", but I feel like the resulting discussing ended up more The Zizek Peterson Debate 18 May 2019 Having previously enjoyed and written about both Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson, I was interested to learn they'd have a debate. Come here for focussed discussion and debate on the Giant of Ljubljana, Slavoj iek and the Slovenian school of psychoanalytically informed philosophy. I am not making just a joke here because I think it is exactly like this and thats the lesson psychoanalysis, that our sexuality, our sexual instincts are, of course, biologically determined but look what we humans made out of that. Slavoj Zizek Peterson Debate - DEBATGR Peterson retreats into the integrity of character and Judeo-Christian values as he sees them. In that part of the discussion, you say that you calling yourself a Communist is a bit of a provocation . Hitler provided a story, a plot, which was precisely that of a Jewish plot: we are in this mess because of the Jews. GitHub - djentleman/zizek_v_peterson: Markov Chain Based Zizek v As the debate ostensibly revolved around comparing capitalism to Marxism, Peterson spent the majority of his 30-minute introduction assailing The Communist Manifesto, in fact coming up with 10 reasons against it. What if secretly they know she would kill her child again. Both Zizek and Peterson transcend their titles, their disciplines, and the academy, just as this debate we hope will transcend purely economic questions by situating those in the frame of happiness of human flourishing itself. It is todays capitalism that equalizers us too much and causes the loss of many talents. But, it is instantly clear how this self-denigration brings a profit of its own. First by admitting we are in a deep mess. Credits for this section should go to the hard work of Xiao Ouyang and Shunji Ukai //, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rUhYdqB2Jh7CU5Le0XgktKaoXQmnTdbv0-_kE5BQL6Q/edit?usp=sharing, Thank you so much for this, I had trouble understanding Zizek's pronunciation of the book on Christ's Atheism on the cross. ", "Snimka dvoboja titana ieka i Petersona", "HRT Je Jedina Televizija U Europi Koja Je Dobila Pravo Prikazati 'Debatu Stoljea': Evo kada moete pogledati filozofski dvoboj iek - Peterson", "Jordan Peterson vs Slavoj iek was more a performance than a debate", "Jordan Peterson i Slavoj iek: Debata stoljea ili precijenjeni show? If you're curious, here's the timestamp for the joke. Peterson, in his opening remarks, noted that scalped tickets were selling at higher prices than the Maple Leafs playoff game happening on the other side of town. Course Hero is not sponsored or endorsed by any college or university. The threat of ecological catastrophe, the consequence of new techno-scientific developments, especially in biogenetics, and new forms of apartheid. He gave a minor history of the French critical theorists who transposed categories of class oppression for group oppression in the 1960s. [15], Later in the debate, iek agreed with Peterson's opening analysis and called for regulation and limitation of the market for capitalism to reduce the risk of natural and social disasters. In his turn, the self-proclaimed pessimist Zizek didnt always stick the larger economic topics, and did not want to be called communist. I mean primarily so called popularly neural-link, the direct link between our brain and digital machines, and then brains among themselves. The Fool and the Madman - Jacobin They can develop into a permanent obsession sustained by obstacles that demand to be overcome in short, into a properly metaphysical passion that preserves the biologically rhythm, like endlessly prolonging satisfaction in courtly love, engaging in different perversions and so on and so on. I wanted to know that too! Democratic freedom, rapturous religion, and newspapers created a hotbed for social experimentation in 19th-century America. They passionately support LGBT, they advocate charities and so on. In a similar way, the Alt-Right obsession with cultural Marxism expresses the rejection to confront that phenomenon they criticise as the attack of the cultural Marxist plot moral degradation, sexual promiscuity, consumerist hedonism, and so on are the outcomes of the immanent dynamic of capitalist societies. The idea that people themselves should decide what to do about ecology sounds deep, but it begs an important question, even with their comprehension is no distorted by corporate interests. Born in France, Delphine Minoui lived in Tehran for 10 years to understand her grandparents country from the inside. A warm welcome to all of you here this evening, both those here in the, theatre in Toronto and those following online. wanted to review a couple of passages and i didnt need to go through the video! For more information, please see our Conservative thinkers claim that the origin of our crisis is the loss of our reliance on some transcendent divinity. Both of these men know that they are explicitly throwbacks. Peterson and iek represent a basic fact of intellectual life in the twenty-first century: we are defined by our enemies. Here refugees are created. So, how to act? [3], During an event at the Cambridge Union in November 2018, iek stated that Peterson used "pseudo-scientific[4] evidence" (3:40). There was an opportunity. He said things like Marx thought the proletariat was good and the bourgeoisie was evil. [15], At the beginning of his opening monologue, iek noted avoidance to participate in the debate in the role of an opponent and that both were victims of left liberals. [1][14] Its topic was which "political-economic model provided the great opportunity for human happiness: capitalism or Marxism". All such returns are today a post-modern fake. It is often claimed that true or not that religion makes some otherwise bad people do good things. What appears as its excesses its regulatory zeal is I think an impotent reaction that masks the reality of a defeat. The cause of problems which are, I claim, immanent to todays global capitalism, is projected onto an external intruder. The title of the debate was "Happiness: Capitalism v. Marxism." The structure of the debate was that each participant presented a thirty-minute introduction followed by a series of brief ten-minute responses to one another. SLAVOJ IEK: . Orthodoxy, by G. K. Chesterton. Iran is a land of contradictions where oppression and freedom uneasily coexist. ", "Video: Analizirali Smo 'Filozofsku Debatu Stoljea': Pred prepunom dvoranom umove 'ukrstili' iek i Peterson, debata ostavila mlak dojam", "The Jordan PetersonSlavoj iek debate was good for something", "Why Conservatives Get Karl Marx Very, Very Wrong", "What I Learned at the 'Debate' Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek", "How Zizek Should Have Replied to Jordan Peterson", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Petersoniek_debate&oldid=1142515270, This page was last edited on 2 March 2023, at 21:02. The pathological element is the husbands need for jealousy as the only way for him to sustain his identity. Thanks for you work. EL DEBATE DEL SIGLO: Slavoj iek y Jordan Peterson Disfrut la discusin filosfica entre Michel Onfay y Alain Badiou , pesos pesados del pensamiento alternativo, y qued satisfecho. Zizek was hard to follow in his prepared statement, he becomes the cold war, and it would seem to me that understanding the ideological roots [16][17] In a similar fashion, iek asked Peterson to name him personal names of "postmodern neo-Marxists" in Western academia and from where he got the statistical numbers because according to him the over-the-top political correctness is opposed to Marxism, to which Peterson replied that his references are aimed towards ideas that are connected with Marxism and postmodernism as a pheonomenon and not necessarily towards people defining themselves as such. Therefore they retreat. This is again not a moral reproach. Directly sharing your experience with our beloved may appear attractive, but what about sharing them with an agency without you even knowing it? It has been said of the debate that " nothing is a greater waste of time ." Tickets to the livestream are $14.95, and admission to the venue itself was running as high as $1,500. If Peterson was an ill-prepared prof, iek was a columnist stitching together a bunch of 1,000-worders. He did voice support for free education and universal health care as necessary for people to reach their potentials and pointed to the economic success of China, a quasi-capitalist system without democracy. And, incidentally Im far from believing in ordinary peoples wisdom. Freedom and responsibility hurt they require an effort, and the highest function of an authentic master is to literally to awake in us to our freedom. It can well secretly invert the standard renunciation accomplished to benefit others. [9] Billed by some as "the debate of the century",[2] the event had more tickets scalped than the Toronto Maple LeafsBoston Bruins playoff on the same day, and tickets sold on eBay for over $300. Two Teams Per Debate Argue For Opposing Positions On An Issue. On the Zizek-Peterson 'debate' - Medium But, nonetheless, deeply divided. [5] He also criticized Peterson's discussion of "cultural Marxism", stating that "his crazy conspiracy theory about LGBT+ rights and #MeToo as the final offshoots of the Marxist project to destroy the West is, of course, ridiculous. All these antagonisms concern what Marx called commons the shared substance of our social being. [16] Similarly to Winston Churchill, he concluded that "capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others". Last nights sold-out debate between Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek and Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson at the Sony Centre was pitched as a no-holds-barred throw down . Then once you factor in the notion that much of Marxism is . essentially well-placed, but as many are quick to point out, Which Way, Raskolnikov? iek v. Peterson - The California Review MICHAEL FEDOROVSKY 1* 1* Investigador Independiente y ensayista. Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek: The debate. | by Ulysses Alvarez Not only are we not allowed cheap excuses for not doing our duty, duty itself should not serve as an excuse. To cite this article: Ania Lian (2019): The Toronto Debate: Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek on Ethics and Happiness, The European Legacy, DOI: 10.1080/10848770.2019.1616901 he event was billed as the debate of the century, The Rumble in the Realm of the Mind, and it did have the feel of a heavyweight boxing match: Jordan Peterson, local boy, against the slapdash Slovenian, Jordan Peterson, Canadian psychology professor and author. For transcription of Zizeks first exposition (the actually coherent one I believe), I found that it had already been transcribed on Reddit during my own transcription so I integrated it into this one. Globalnews.ca your source for the latest news on presidential debate. Everything was permitted to them as they perceived themselves as direct instrument of their divinity of historical necessity, as progress towards communism. The 'debate of the century': what happened when Jordan Peterson debated I hope reading the debate will help me understand the arguments better. authors with occasional bridges being thrown accross. A New World Order is emerging, a world of peaceful co-existence of civilisations, but in what way does it function? She observed in a recent critical note that in the years since the movement began it deployed an unwavering obsession with the perpetrators. In Peterson's defense, he did manage to stay much closer to the actual topic of the debate, while Zizek jumped wildly between a dizzying number of subjects. And I must agree. El debate Peterson-iek, oficialmente titulado Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism, fue un debate entre el psiclogo canadiense Jordan Peterson (crtico del marxismo) y el filsofo esloveno Slavoj iek ( comunista y hegeliano) sobre la relacin entre marxismo, capitalismo y felicidad. Zizek's conclusion is, in his words "pessimistic": we will continue to slide Similarly, he's crusading against "[1][6] According to Matthew Sharpe writing for The Conversation, .mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 40px}.mw-parser-output .templatequote .templatequotecite{line-height:1.5em;text-align:left;padding-left:1.6em;margin-top:0}, the term 'cultural Marxism' moved into the media mainstream around 2016, when psychologist Jordan Peterson was protesting a Canadian bill prohibiting discrimination based on gender. And that was the great irony of the debate: what it comes down to is that they believe they are the victims of a culture of victimization. consist just in searching for happiness, no matter how much we spiritualise If there is no such authority in nature, lobsters may have hierarchy, undoubtedly, but the main guy among them does not have authority in this sense. meaningful cause beyond the mere struggle for pleasurable survival. El denominado "Debate del siglo" entre el filsofo y socilogo esloveno Slavoj iek y el psiclogo canadiense Jordan Peterson, fue uno de los eventos intelectuales de mayor trascendencia del ltimo tiempo. Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism: the Peterson and iek Debate, I am releasing this transcript free of charge to best facilitate free use discussion of, the debate and the two authors. agreement (as well they should, adopting neither deluded far-left or far-right Peterson: Otherwise, the creative types would sit around and see them again. It seems that our countries are run relatively well, but is the mess the so-called rogue countries find themselves in not connected to how we interact with them? He couldnt believe it. 25 Debate quotes that show Jordan Peterson doesn't know what - Medium Not that I was disappointed. Look at Bernie Sanders program. It develops like French cuisine. matters: meaning, truth, freedom. He's the sort of aging quitter we all hope to never be. Im far from a simple social constructionism here. The rest of the debate was (if memory serves) also interesting, but it gets even statement. Peterson-iek debate - Wikipedia iek.uk - "If you have a good theory, forget about the reality." This Was An Interesting Debate. increasingly erratic in the rest of the debates. But is this really the lesson to be learned from mob killing, looting and burning on behalf of religion? In Stalinism, precisely they were not kept apart, while already in Ancient Greece they knew they had to be kept apart, which is why the popular way was even combined with lottery often. So, let me begin by bringing together the three notions from the title Happiness, Communism, Capitalism in one exemplary case China today. He makes a big deal out of how he obsessed about We have to find some meaningful cause beyond the mere struggle for pleasurable survival. Is there, in todays United States, really too much equality? Can we even imagine how the fragile balance of our earth functions and in what unpredictable ways geo-engineering can disturb it? IQ, Politics, and the Left: A Conversation with Douglas Murray Transcript Nina Paley: Animator Extraordinaire Transcript Aspen Ideas Festival: From the Barricades of the Culture Wars Transcript He sees the rejections of some systemic failures of capitalism onto external It made me wonder about the rage consuming all public discussion at the moment: are we screaming at each other because we disagree or because we do agree and we cant imagine a solution?