Winchester's website has data for W231 and a 125 gr LRNFP, but not plated. 2.7 GR WST IS TOO LIGHT FOR THE 50 YD LINE. If you have the means, I highly recommend you trying one out. It is also one of the most pleasurable loads a shooter can touch off. Unsurpassed for .45 ACP target loads. Ammunition is available everywhere handguns are legal. Midway has it in stock. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I once rented a Ruger LCR in .38 Special. I also find the LCR .357 enjoyable to shoot with all .38s and most .357s. 4.) Notes: primer: CCI 500; case: Speer; NOTE: All loads are maximum. I recently picked up a 396 Nightguard and am a convert to the 44 Special! RN, 158 gr. I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. Using higher pressure loads will wear brass out faster and it will become brittle with time. I almost spit out my drink when I read your comment. Would .44 Special be somewhat similar to .38, in terms of ease of reloading, case life, etc.? Dont get me wrong: I think the Smith and Wesson Model 642 Airweight revolver is an outstanding self-defense (concealed carry) revolver and you wont feel/care about how snappy/unpleasant the recoil may be in a real self-defense event. I was just trying to get a general consensus of what other guys were using. But not too tough. more weight than the similar size CA .44 Bulldog, were available, a lot more people would also like the .44 spl. Many of these men had no real experience with the handgun, and we had but a few weeks to get them up to very high standards that most shooters will never reach. You can't rely on this because not all variables for YOUR cases and chamber and loading length, etc. The covered blackstrap and extended length Compac design I reckon are major factors in reducing perceived recoil. Read my very long thread about "DR loads that don't suck". Required fields are marked *. As a result, Ive been able to spend far more time practicing with it rather than fussing with it. Some people then claimed SAAMI raised the 357 Mag to 45,000. You can fit 7.1gr of powder under the 125gn JHP bullet? I have tested lots and lots of different bullet and found them all to be great. In half a dozen different sixguns, it ranged from accurate to spectacular. I found it to be a nice blend of accuracy, soft recoil, and sure functioning, with enough spice behind it to reliably topple steel targets. Shot placement is just as important if not more. The SP101 is far more comfortable to shoot but not so much fun to carry. Just look for a lead remover tool with bronze screens. Most DNR (Do Not Reduce) loads are well over 900-fps. These are put into a large hydraulic press and extruded into a continuous coil of wire. So I'd think you should find a decent load for short line at about 700 Fps and for the long line at about 800. Of course, these will be used in a revolver. It would have been too hot. Starting being near 3gr - ish. )Lastly, the .38 SPL has a very large following and materials can be had readily. So, I'm guessing the pressure curve isn't as severe as some of the faster burners. And, oh yeah. In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). The big medicine was delivered by a 1911, but S&W K frames (favorites were Models 12 & 64) took care of everything else. And.those Hornady 158 HPs are easy to reload but I have never had one open up in a varmint of any sort. This pistol uses the .38 Special with a Remington wadcutter bullet seated flush with the case mouth. The average street punk today has more firepower than the Russian Army did in WWII and trying to re-load a revolver in a fire fight is the best way to commit suicide that I could ever think of. Between that, some other info on other forums, Winchester's data for a lead flat point, and numbers from loaddata.com, I think I have some to start with. References: Accurate Arms Co. 1996 Reloading booklet Alliant Powder Co. Reloaders Guide (1995) Hodgdons Basic Reloaders Manual (1996) Speer Reloading Manual, #12 Winchester Reloading Components Manual, 14th edition Lyman Piston & Revolver Reloading Handbook, 2nd edition. For example, a Glock 17 shot the HAP into 1.35 inches and the FMJ into 2.2 inches at 25 yards. I reload a 3 CA Bulldog in .44 with 200 gr wadcutters, to recreate the Man Stopper loads of long ago. I carry my M642 extensively, but I only shoot it occasionally because it is a snappy little b!tch with standard loads. I still think highly of the LCR but would shoot only 148 grain wadcutters in .38 Special or .32 H&R Magnums in the .327 Magnum model. Thats not quite how that works. Ive been shooting them for 50 years. I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. @ Grumpy- I tried LOTS of grips on S&W revolvers. What overal length of the cartridge? Their biggest use is in making screws and small bolts. For those folks shooting a lot of lead bullets, invest in a Lewis lead remover. I have experimented with both of Hornadys 200-grain semiwadcutters in this load: the more button-nosed SWC and the longer Combat/Target (C/T) version. Its the only gun that has appreciated in value (as long as you ignore inflation). (Note: These are near maximum loads (in some cases ARE MAXIMUM), you should use 10%. In my time with the cartridge, I have come to appreciate the mid to low end of the power spectrum and thus have made extensive use of Trail Boss powder and bullets such as Hornadys .358 158gr SWC. Don't worry too much about lead/coated/plated/jacketed. Dont know where #1 Buckshot can be found, but the Speer shot cups and UNIQUE powder currently easy enough to find. Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue. No offense sir but those charges look low for Unique. Powders include IMR, Hodgdon, Alliant, Vihtavuori, Winchester, Accurate hard cast LSWC's as a target load. On my J frame S&W without the CT #305 Laser Grips, I swapped out to a Hoque set. Its the kind of load that will make you fall in love with the 1911 all over again! As for the load ya the 158gr will probably take a little more, but your gun will tell you how much more.. BTW, I wish I had any one of those three revolvers today. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). After making a healthy pile of brass with this load, I am unlikely to ever be without a few boxes of it on standby. 3 1/2" average not included flyers which seem to happen on every group test. I dunno. I used to reload .38s and .357s with 158 grain LSWC bullets over 4.3 and 6.5 grains of Unique. .38 Special is a lot more comfortable in a service size revolver like my Model 10. Normal, mild .38 loads work fine with lead bullets. Ive not had a handgun entirely reject either load, so the recipe seems to be a worthy third alongside the previous .38 and .45. Any hotter and we get into a recoil issue. I bought him as a gift a 642 with the black rubber grips, a few speedloaders w/big knob tops, and Hornady 125 grain FTX loads. I find the Pachmayr Compac grips on my 640 reduce the slap of full-boat .357 to less than that on my 3 M65 (w/ wood Altamont grips) or my 4 686 (Pachmayr Gripper Professional grips.) 9 mm, .40 sw, 45 acp, .44 mag. 1995-2022. Smith & Wesson Model 27 .357 Magnum (because no 6-inch Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver was on hand). Unlike many other guns Ive owned and carried, this little snubby really cant be modified much beyond factory configuration. Really interested in getting the. Ive been looking for a reason to get into reloading, and am particularly intrigued by the extremely long case life of .38 Special. I completely understand the respect for the performance of the 327 Fed, but not being a big fan of the 357 Mag (or 38 SPL plus P for that matter) I havent been drawn to the 327. Also some WSF. JHP, 125 gr. Softer alloys of lead are just easier on the machinery. If I get to see him shoot those loads, it would be worth the price of a new keyboard! (This is prevalent among most aftermarket designs- they are smallest in the longest, strongest finger area, and largest at the bottom pinkie area.). Power Pistol won't work for me. Your previous content has been restored. This load chugs downrange at 750 feet each second and functions standard recoil springs with no issue. I started with a Lee Loader for my shiny new Python .357, because all the ammo I could find (in 1968) was lead semiwadcutters, loaded so hot they sloughed off the lead in the bore, so after a box you couldnt see any rifling, it looked like a smoothebore, and lord was it hard to clean!! Designed in 1898, the .38 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge went on . I would say I completely disagree with you on ever even contemplating using a revolver for self defense unless you are a person that has never owned a gun and not likely ever to practice with it. My use of the term adequate means that Hodgdon has produced a workable result for the .38 Special, .38 Special +P, and .357 Magnum that may be used for 125 grain weight bullets having velocity limitations. All the data says this should be an OK load , even "mid-range" for non +p. 10 for a full cylinder. No sh!t. Not all guns are created equal. September 2015 S.W.A.T. How Do I Choose Good Self-Defense Ammo For My Handgun? Youre describing Remington Multiball ammunition (R357MB)- I used to carry that stuff decades ago. less to start.) That little 9 oz. A handgunner using .38 Specials is set for targets, plinking and small game while .357 Mag. accuracy. Winchester's 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. I prefer the slower burning Unique, and I also use it for .357 magnum, just more of it. At belly button range, very nasty load. Home About Partners Contact. I did start out fawning over all of the tactical gear, but once I had that covered my tastes matured I think to love the wood and steel guns. TITEGROUP AND 125GR 38 SPECIAL LOAD DATA Ammunition-Gunsmithing Reloading Forum Register Notices Consider Becoming A Supporting Member Click HERE For The Benefits Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here Thread Tools Display Modes # 1 01-24-2016, 05:38 AM RONALD HENSLEY Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Waynesville NC Posts: 114 Likes: 12 : 1.475" Powder: 6.0 gr 6.9 gr Vel. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. DISTINGUISHED LOADS SUCK - Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck? Stylish But Serious: Kimber Super Carry Pro, Survival Savvy: Gearing Up for the Next Level, Force Multiplier: Knife and Gun Integration. I just dont like practicing with it. I was looking through the Lyman 49th edition reloading manual and see the bullets you are talking about. Never got around to trying the T grips. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges you'd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. YouTube has plenty of reloading channels or the Reloaders Network webpage has more info as well. I first started reloading 40+ years ago at a Lee Loader in .38 Special for a brand new Smith & Wesson Model 66 I had just purchased. But I found 2.4 and 2.7 interesting at 25 yards off the sandbags. The jump straight to relatively hot GI hardball challenged many students, and failure to meet standards meant being dropped from the course. You may find it will need to be faster for good 50 yd. Interesting. WST is less dense than BE. I went to the grocery store to buy a loath of bread.. The Speers do occasionally and the Magnus a little more. Very versatile cartridge. You are absolutely correct. And I still think a 158 at 600 beats hell out of a 22 magnum of any stripe. Choosing a bullet would also bridge the gap that the .38 versus .357 have in defensive loads. HAVE FUN JP. You are spot on about Trail Boss, that stuff is magical with cast reloads. Good point Len. IIRC, I used 4.5 gr of Bullseye under a 125 gr lead bullet for a light plinker, and 5.6 gr of Bullseye under a 148 gr wadcutter (~815 fps, 4" bbl, probably around 750 fps out of a snub). It will then fit in your 38 Special gun. That blunt-ended bullet cut a clean hole all the way through whatever its modest velocity allowed it to penetrate. Really important to have a chrono if you're going to work up loads When I first bought my chrono, I was amazed at how HOT my loads were - unnecessarily. Anyway, you are probably right that the revolver guys trend towards the older end of the spectrum, but I think some of the younger guys are starting to catch on to the magic of wheel guns. The powder charges used for .38 are forgiving. Hehe, back before Nick skimmed down. I probably shoot more 38s than everything else put together but a Dillon 750 makes loading a lot faster. The mention of a Lee Loader somewhere above took me back to the good-old days. 10,870. I'm guessing they still go bang, and leave the gun to go downrange. I'm still hunting for a DR load for my S&W M19-5. is so simple. Generally, I'm looking for a load that produces accuracy from approx. Regulator, SBSS #2255, Pawnee Station, Ro I & II. have been factored in, but Looks like starting with roughly 4.2 of W231. swatmag.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Great Cast Lead Bullet for IDPA. Discussion: Bullseye is a faster burning powder and some people feel better suited for the .38 special. Ive done the majority of shooting in .38 Special in my Smith & Wesson 642. is a good place to start. Hornady also has load data for the 110-grain .357 XTP for the lower-pressure .38 Automatic. I don't completely understand the physics behind it. Hodgdon gives starting load of 4.0 grains and 4.4 grains MAX. In a day you can make over 100,000 bullets. Recoil is mild enough that for many years it was the golden choice for the next introductory step for young or new shooters after rimfire. head I use 3.2gr. But for plinking, they'd be fine. I can shoot this load at speeds I cant normally reach with .45. CorBon Self Defense, 38 Special, 125 Grain, Jacketed Hollow Point, +P, 20 Round Box 38125 of Bullseye, 148 gr lead DEWC and Federal 100 primers. Bullseye Handgun Powders Smokeless pistol powder Billions of rounds have been loaded with Bullseye since it was introduced in 1913. Send the cylinder out to get cut for moon clips and adapted to 9mm, so you can shoot both 38/357/9mm and use all on moon clips. 2.) 110gr JHP! Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue. *WAP is not best choice for .38 special, too slow and inconsistent. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets. The Model 19 is fine with .38s but mildly uncomfortable with .357s. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion, I'm looking for an accurate load using 125gr bullets. The .38 with careful selection of components can be the cats as* for almost any shooter. Your experience is definitely motivation for me to give my J-frame more range time! Others Have reported some success but few have more than one or two loads. Pasted as rich text. There have been guns Ive bought for the caliber, but the .38 wasnt one of those. Similar to a 9mm 124 gr RN Cast Bullet. This wire is then fed into a machine called a cold header. Re: 38 special loads by GrumpyOldMan 11/10/2013, 4:23 pm IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. Hornady The proof pressure MAP specified by SAAMI is 29,500 psi for both rounds. Tim: The Lyman 49th edition lists the accuracy loads for their cast bullets. I picked some up from my local Scheels yesterday. The floor does not apply for PPC, or the equivalent match for Action Pistol. Has anyone loaded 38 special with these compoments? The 357 magnum about 45,000 psi and the std 38 special about 17,000 psi. The more serious concern for some loaders is that the small charges of fast-burning powder take up little room in the case, making it possible to double charge a cartridge and exceed safe pressure. My son asked if I wanted him to help, then fired one shot and handed it back. Reduce by 10% to establish a starting charge weight. For 3 that actually doesnt kick too badly. The quality of the loads equals a bargain. Eventually somebody introduced me to tungsten carbide resizing dies, after which case life became near indefinite. revolver, with a 3 barrel, and 4 6 oz. I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. Too early Are you sure? No matter where you look, the first mention in classic loads for the .38 Special is a 148-grain wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Coming in 30 grains lighter and 80 fps slower than hardball, as well as being lead rather than jacketed, the 200/4.6 SWC is amazingly soft. 44 Rem Mag 36,000. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds . People who prepare usually tend to focus on the survival basics: security/self-defense, water, food, first aid, sanitation/hygiene, knowing when to get out and when to stay put. Berry says load plated bullets to mid-range jacketed bullets of same profile and weight or equal to hard cast. SWC, 160 gr. Modern .38 spl std HP load is more than enough, dont over think it. (For those who would. While I do have a GP100 in .357 magnum, I dont like shooting .38 special ammo out of it, because cleaning powder residue out of the longer chambers is a real bitch. i had the same issues you did when i was trying to load for my DR revolver 14-3. to light of power had a soft recoil but ungodly bad accuracy. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges youd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. Two years into my second century a Colt MK IV Series 80 LTWT Commander 45 ACP still delivers the big medicine, but I have become enthralled with a new wheel gun- a Charter Arms Professional 32 H&R Magnum. Never ransom rested it, but held 10 ring off sandbags. The gun has appeared on TTAG before and has remained unchanged as far as accessories. Good job on you! My M60 came w/ factory banana grips- open back, long enough for pinkie rest but too small in girth behind the trigger guard. Forget about it. I soon traded off a Colt Frontier Scout .22 LR for an S&W Model 15 and happily chased all manner of small game and landfill targets with my stash of wadcutters. Bullseye is a little smoky, a lot sooty, and has a distinct odor. Nitpicking is its own reward., I believe the correct spelling is loathe . Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. Be careful !!!!