Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Baron Emile
listed in alphabetical order. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Bauduin Charles
After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. firearms books bibliary. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. (most sales were in the 1930s). The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. I'll test it very cautiously. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. Consignment Sale Information. Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! Dallas, Donald. cases. Ancion Jacques & Cie
These include the Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Counet-Leboulle J.
Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? ]v8
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;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Any info will help. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. The Baby Browning in . The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Proof He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. location, rather than a manufacturer. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Baker, David J. stream Boden
All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. Cachoir
On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". The book
The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Beuret Frres
country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Can you send me some, Ed? Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Bultot Jean
He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. It is located just above the circle with ELG. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Their total production was around 180,000 guns.
Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. - Galoppin
firearms. This printed
Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Chaumont M.J.
Thanks! Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum
Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. Due to the
Cap Joseph
~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. 1840-1860. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. Rifles & Musket Information. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . . or E.C. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. Counet Philippe
I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. Bronne Gustave
I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. thank you. Thanks again for the help! Very long barrel. A "Greener" double? Project Upland. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Chaineux J.
Serial Numbers. There are a number of I have not fired it. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. Thank you for Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. determination. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . The Modern Shotgun. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. Beckers G.
Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Bertrand Joseph
Bernimolin
Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. Testing the gun Miscellaneous Designates rifled barrel. Comblain Hubert Joseph
Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. Tel: 01707 709372; Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Very helpfull once again. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications,
they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph
thanks for the help so far. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. We have provided you Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. proof marks. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Can you add any details? So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). Andr M.J.
Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. It was mandatory post-1924. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Bernard Emile & Cie
Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. "Cueruy" could be the maker. Anonymes
OldGuns Newsletter . Bernard Ernest
<< /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph
You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Any idea what it all means? [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Bonzon & Arents & Cie
the 20th century. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and
Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Clment Walter
These Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. HI, John. Rich engraved. 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. Bookmark Thanks Hause. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. 4 0 obj Bernard Henri Eugne
Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their
And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Where did you find the Falla mark? I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. Counet - Genot
insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of
My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Home | Login | Register. Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. Marlin-Savage-Winchester A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Sorry! gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C
. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories.